Home » General Conversation » Gun Talk » Ohio to potentially allow rifles using pistol calibre cartridges for deer hunting
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| Re: Ohio to potentially allow rifles using pistol calibre cartridges for deer hunting [message #30279 is a reply to message #30258] |
Tue, 01 April 2014 08:00   |
jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming
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The 375Win started as a cartridge for the Win 94AE, like the 307 and 356's. Would all three become eligble and "legal" as pistol rounds solely because T/C happened to chamber them in 15 Encore or Contender? Most states that allow "pistol" cartridges have other criteria, such as "straight wall", minimum bore sizes, cartridge length maxes, minimum energy levels with factory rounds, and the like. We all know you can get such things as the 300 Win mag in a 15" Encore, does that "make" the 300 Win Mag a "pistol cartridge"? I read the link you provided, and didn't see where "pistol cartridge" was pre-defined. Personally, I'm afraid your "desire" over-ran what may actually come about. When it's all settled and done, I'd guess that they may actually LIST what meets regulations, and I'm afraid the 375 Win isn't going to be one of them. But speaking from a personal standpoint, I'd be tickled that the 375 Win is apparantl;y already a legal deer cartridge in the 15", But then I'm a strictly handgun hunter anyway. Would never even consider getting anything larger than 16" barrel on other than a pistol grip. Let's see what they end up with before celebrating. Good luck tho.
Jim
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| Re: Ohio to potentially allow rifles using pistol calibre cartridges for deer hunting [message #30281 is a reply to message #30280] |
Tue, 01 April 2014 09:57 |
jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming
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I'm confused too. 375 Win isn't a straight wall cartridge, there's some taper to it. Yes, it meets the 357 caliber or larger, but hardly "straight wall". You stated that you were currently using an encore 15 for deer hunting in Ohio. I also fail to personally see going from a pistol in 375 Win to a 24 rifle is an "upgrade", I'd personally see it as a "downdgrade". But that's what makes us "individuals" each with our our ideas as to what's of value.
the encore/contender was mreley questioning whether T/C defines ohio regulations/law as to what is "defined" as a pistol/rifle cartridge. Conventional thinking is that "most" of the other arms companys have more influence in that, ie ruger, S&W (handgun division), Colt, Taurus and the like who don't "stretch" the envelope as to what is chambered in either the encore or contender pistols. Remington started going against the grain with the XP-100; weatherby, savage, and a few other's joined the bandwagon. Do these "odd-balls" have that much sway in the various states' regulations and definitions of pistol vs rifle chamberings?
Wyoming law was more progressive much further back. "legal "handgun" rounds for big-gamne hunting had several prongs, any one of which made a legal "pistol round". 23 caliber or "larger", and minimum case length of 2" was one avenue. 35 cal and 500 ft# of energy at 100 yards with factory ammo was another. They were quick to actually say that the 357Mag was legal. 30-30, 358 JDJ , etc passed by the 23 cal/2" rule, factory loaded wasn't part of the accepted definition. 7TCU by the same definition. And this was all 1980 era. They did also include 41 mag, 44 mag and 45 colt along with the 357 mag just so hunters knew it was acceptable via either rule avenue. There was a good stretch where they didn't keep up with some of the typical "pistol" rounds, but the warden in the field was savvy enough to know that the 45Win mag, 357 max, and they like would easily qualify. I don't think anyone ever had to push an issue in a court. G&F really hates to have to require a warden or biologist to have to "waste" time and espenses for a court hearing or trial. That's saved for more serious offesnses like poaching, wanton waste, tresspassing, over limits, no license, failure to detach and fill out coupons properly and the like.
BTW, cartridge "length" included a bullet seated to "normal depth", not just case length.
Jim
[Updated on: Tue, 01 April 2014 10:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Ohio to potentially allow rifles using pistol calibre cartridges for deer hunting [message #30791 is a reply to message #30281] |
Mon, 21 April 2014 13:33 |
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Ohio passed this law:
Quote:This week, the Ohio Wildlife Council voted to approve deer hunting with certain straight walled rifle cartridges (pistol caliber rifles or PCR) during any season that shotguns are legal to use.
Shotguns and rifles used for deer hunting may be loaded with a maximum of three shells in the magazine and chamber combined. Approved calibers include:
.357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .375 Winchester, .375 Super Magnum, .38 Special, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith &Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Smith & Wesson.
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| Re: Ohio to potentially allow rifles using pistol calibre cartridges for deer hunting [message #30807 is a reply to message #30806] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 09:08 |
jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming
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Eric, Just one question. "Ohio passed this law:". One maybe minor question about that, because I know what that would mean if someone saif that about Wyoming, but not how it works in Ohio (or any other state for that matter". In Wyoming only the legislature can pass "law", and the courts are the only ones that can "interpet the law". Here, The Game department can only publish "regulations", based only on what "slop" the legislature puts in the law they passed. For instance fairly recently for us, The legislature was pondering allowing suppressors in the field. Both the Game department and the Wardens association DESIRED a compromise, while "predator hunting", thus not for big game, trophy game, small game, game birds, etc. Hoping that the legislature would "play ball", even tho bottom line they wanted the then current law to stay in effect. The Game department couldn't do anything about establishig regulations to pick and choose just when and where or how or what circumstances suppressors would be ok, The legislature dind't go along and the game department was totally stuck with it, they pretty much mad eit ok for anytime on any type of regulated hunting. F&G can't "make law". Apparantly, Ohio legislature "law" was pretty simple and "loose", The Ohio Wildlife Council has the authority to define what's "allowed" in rifles. Here, only the state legislature can do that by statute. IE, years ago "pistol cartridges allowed was spelled out in law, F&G just published what qualified to meet it. There were a other law wording that covered in the general rules already established by stae law. IE. The law said that to qualify as a legal pistol cartridge, min bore size was .35, and enrgey had to be at least 500ft#'s at 100 yards with a factory available cartridge. F&W published that wardens in the field wouldn't question 357 mag, 41 mag, and 44 mag. Naturally when the 357 max came out, it was alreaqdy more than 357 mag, so no worder would question someone if they were using that. Same with 45 Win Mag., 454, etc. (even tho not ke[pt up to date on the published regulations in application books for license draws. Now did that mean just those? No, "Rifle" legal was min 23 cal, min 2" total length of 2 inches including abullet seated to normal depth. Thus 7TCU, 30-30 Contenders, etc were backdoor allowed in hanguns. Basically it was "either/or". It was EXTREMELY rare that anyone used just a pistol, and that's still true today. In 1981 I was the only one in the whole state that hunted deer and antelope with a 30 Herrett. 82 7TCU, 83-84 35 Rem, 85 358 JDJ. Show a round to a warden and his jaw dropped to his knees, real quick, "you're ok".BHig time with the 358jdj, can't publish what he actually said. Those still aren't in the actual published regulations distributed with every application book, map for deer, antelop, elk, etc, they fially did a published update for the straight wall "pisol cartridges", still behind adding like the 50 mag, 460, etc. 357 max, 454, were added, just a good number behind yet. they don't actually have "pistol" or rifle defined, it's all just "firearm" Rifles chambered in any of the straightwall "pistol" rounds is is what they were gettin at, Like a win94 in 357 mag, 44 ruger auto carbine, and the likes. Didn't ever matter if one hand held or barrel length as a "firearm". If legal in a rifle, legal in pistol as well, used atf definntion of "firearm". (single projectile down a rifled barrel), cna't make up their own definitions like some states get away with.
Jim
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| Re: Ohio to potentially allow rifles using pistol calibre cartridges for deer hunting [message #30875 is a reply to message #30806] |
Fri, 25 April 2014 10:19 |
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The Ohio Wildlife Council approved these specific straight-walled cartridge rifles for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.
[Updated on: Fri, 25 April 2014 10:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Ohio to potentially allow rifles using pistol calibre cartridges for deer hunting [message #30885 is a reply to message #30876] |
Fri, 25 April 2014 19:33 |
deet8203
Messages: 32
Registered: April 2014
Location: Munster Indiana
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Novice Contributor |
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It's a good list, but 38 special for use on deer is questionable in my opinion. Why no 10mm. How about 40 s&w, how about 44-40, 450 bushmaster, .50 Beowulf. I know it says straight walled, but come on, these rounds are close to all the other rounds in terms of power. 130 grain 38 special round might get the deer to drop, but I am betting it will test Ohio's hunters ability to track a wounded animal. When Gov't picks cartridges for hunters, they always show their ignorance. Good luck hunting this year, there are some very capable rounds in that list.
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