Home » General Conversation » Reloading » Wildcat Help (Unidentified 0.275 H&H Mag based wildcat)
| Wildcat Help [message #32180] |
Sun, 13 July 2014 16:23  |
jmiles007
Messages: 51
Registered: December 2012
Location: NEMO
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Novice Contributor |
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Hi,
I am hoping to find someone on here with extensive wilcat knowledge from days gone by to help me indentify a rifle/cartridge that I have found. I there is no one here, I welcome suggestions of who to contact. I'm sure there are other forums out there that might be better suited for this question, but none have a better bunch of people with good attitudes and willingness to help a stranger, so I'm starting here. 
So, what is it, you ask? A friend is trying to sell me an old Enfield rifle that has been custom chambered for what looks like a smallbore wildcat using 0.275 H7H Magnum cases necked down. He has the rifle and three pieces of brass, two empties and one still loaded. All he can tell me is that it was being built by a local doctor who was building it to use on antelope out west, but never got that far. Based on the life of the Dr, who I barely remember treating me as a small kid, I would guess this was done sometime in the 60's. There is a handwritten piece of paper in the bag with the cases that says that it is an Enfield American made "wildcat" using the 0.275 H&H Magnum with a 0.235 dia bullet.
My short internet research so far has shown that the 0.275 H&H Mag is an obsolete cartridge in its own right, and in checking Sierra's website, they do not make a 0.235" diameter bullet. I looked at a few wildcat websites for obsolete cartridges, and the closest I can find are the 230-257 Roberts, the 234-270, and the various .240's. Of course there is also the 0.244 H&H Magnum, but that doesn't match either. I did not have my calipers with me, so I was not able to measure the cases or the bullet in the loaded round, but thought I would be able to find it somewhere.
So my questions are many, and the answers so far are few.
1) Was this an established wildcat that he was trying to duplicate, or was he literally out there on his own?
2) Why would he use such an odd sized bullet instead of a .224 or a .280?
3) If I buy the gun, where and how would I get custom dies made for it? (No, the dies did not come with the gun. I assume they were sold at the sale in a box of miscellaneous that no one knew the importance of.)
4) Where can I find out what the allowable chamber pressures are for the Enfield and that barrel in order to work up a load for it? There are no stampings on the barrel at all that can be seen with the stock on it.
5) Where would I find odd sized bullets? I assume custom made = very expensive. Probably for both bullets and dies. 
I wasn't able to take any pictures of it today, but will post them later if I can. I am an experienced reloader, and I have loaded a lot of standard caliber ammo from tables, but have never done one from scratch. I like the idea of having a shooter that no one else has, especially since it was made by the old community doctor who treated my entire family and most everyone I know. However, I have never been in the habit of buying "safe queens", and my motto has always been: If I can't shoot it, I don't want it. However, this might be the one exception due to the sentimental value.
I don't have a clue how to establish a value until most of the above questions have been answered. He asked $350 for it today, and I'm thinking about just telling him I can't find the cartridge on any web-sites, and offering him a hundred bucks for it, just to have it. Is the Enfield action and stock worth something discounting the odd sized barrel?
So, is there anyone out there who can help me with this, or point me in the right direction?
Thanks
Jerry
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| Re: Wildcat Help [message #32183 is a reply to message #32181] |
Sun, 13 July 2014 18:35  |
jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming
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Top Contributor |
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The "Enfield" rifle is likely the 1917 Enfield American army issued rifle. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield.
As to the "odd" caliber, "230". Wyoming for years wanted to ban use of the .224's 22-250's, 225 Win, 220 swift and the like. So they wrote into the regulations that a "legal" big-game/trophy game round must have a 230 bore size or bigger. The only smallest thing available was such rounds as the 243 win, various 6mm's, etc.
P.O. Ackley, the wildcat dreamer-upper, toyed with and created and experimented with a whole host of 230 sized rounds just to create something that was Wyoming legal. Remember, He lived in Salt Lake barely across the wyoming /utah border. So the best place to start looking would be in his 2 volume set describing cartridges both factory and "wildcats".
The 1917 Enfield's chamber was a 30-06, so "safe pressures" would be in the '06 range. They were better looking bolt guns than the 30-40 Krag and 03's and many went straight from the battlefields of WWI to the game fields across america requiring almost nothing to become "sporterized". When America entered WWII, the 1917 Enfield was still the issue weapon for servicemen. A little after entering the war, The M-1 Garand kept the 30-06 as the cartridge; the M-1 carbine, another auto-loader used a much smaller round and sized much lighter and shorter weapon.
Jim
[Updated on: Sun, 13 July 2014 18:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Wildcat Help [message #32252 is a reply to message #32196] |
Wed, 16 July 2014 16:45 |
jmiles007
Messages: 51
Registered: December 2012
Location: NEMO
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Novice Contributor |
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Ok. Here is are the results of my revisit with calipers and a tape measure. While the manufacurer's stamp has been stippled/ground off, the receiver is most likely an Eddystone due to the "E"s stamped on the bolt and safety. I'm sure there are more inside, but I didn't do any disassembly. The 5 digit serial number indicates that it was made in November 1917, according to one database I found. There are no visible stampings on the barrel, and it is approximately 26" long and tapers from 1.020" down to 0.663" at the crown. The chamber is 1.312" OD. The bolt shows some pretty good signs of wear, but it all appears to be a complete, functioning rifle, except for the missing scope or sights.
All three cases are head stamped Western .275 H&H Magnum, which were discontinued in 1939, and the dimensions appear to be correct for this brass. Case length is 2.5" unfired and runs about 0.020" over this on the two that have been fired. The rim dia is 0.532" and the belt is basically the same. However, the business end appears to be correct for a .230 caliber. The bullet diameter where it exits the brass is 0.230", but it is already tapering at that point, so I have no reason to doubt the 0.235" bullet diameter written on the paper. The neck diameter is 0.265" and the neck length is approximately 0.290". OAL of the loaded cartridge is 2.986 with a hollow point bullet.
I found many varying opinions on the metal and heat treating used by Eddystone when making these rifles. While some were more adamant than others about whether they were truly inferior (like the early 1903's), or whether the rings just cracked due to overtorquing when the barrels were installed, all were unanimous that it wasn't a good thing. One gunsmith's motto was "Save the receiver & lose the barrel, or save the barrel & lose the receiver." He wasn't confident that the original barrels could be removed with any consistency without machining or damage.
While it would be neat to own as a piece of history from the time when many wildcatters were attempting to beat Wyoming's 0.230" minimum barrel diameter with absolutely no room to spare, I believe that it would be too expensive, and possibly hazardous (see above) to get set up with custom made dies, brass, and bullets to be able to shoot it. Then add the cost of a custom scope mount to make it usable for anything other than the chronograph. And if I were going to put the expense into rebarreling or reboring to convert it to something else, I don't think this is the receiver that I would choose to start with. Be that as it may, we couldn't agree on a price, so it was wiped down and returned to his gun cabinet where it has lived for the last 20 yrs. Maybe I will see it again, and maybe I won't. Either way, it's been a fun week, and I've certainly learned more about M1917's than I had ever hoped to! 
Many thanks to Jim and the others who have contributed information to my research. Here are a few pictures to enjoy.
    
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