Home » General Conversation » Gun Talk » Odd caliber barrels question.
| Odd caliber barrels question. [message #34645] |
Sat, 13 December 2014 15:55  |
mjgonehunting
Messages: 269
Registered: May 2012
Location: NY
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Are the more obsolete caliber barrels worth any more than similar barrels in popular calipers?
The ones that come to mind are 5mm and 221 fireball.
Would a 5mm octagon contender barrel be worth buying for around 150.00 as a possible resale investment?investment?
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| Re: Odd caliber barrels question. [message #34646 is a reply to message #34645] |
Sat, 13 December 2014 16:18  |
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cajuntec
Messages: 1251
Registered: November 2009
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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Opinions will vary, but I'll start...
I just don't see any used T/C barrels as "collectors items", regardless of the caliber. Do some demand a higher price due to it's rarity? Maybe. But even then, you have to find a buyer willing to pay what you want for it. That buyer might be one in a million, and they may not use the internet, so they may never see an online ad. Advertise local? You reduce the pool even further, as you aren't reaching a very large audience.
I can see whole rifles or pistols, in a collectors set, unfired, as being collectors items. I personally wouldn't buy one or have one, because I think all modern, still-safe firearms should be shot, and I couldn't bear to see one linger in a case all its life. There are a great many that disagree with me, and would probably have a stroke if they saw some of the guns I've hunted with in the past, or still continue to hunt with today.
A single barrel off a firearm, regardless of the caliber, is just a barrel to me. It's a piece of steel that has been chambered to a certain diameter. Would I pay more for an "odd" diameter? Maybe. Depends on if I have a use for it. I have no use for a 5mm or 221 Fireball, but you may.
I love it when someone posts a "rare" firearm (or barrel) on a website, but if you do a search, there is another one for sale on the same website. How "rare" could it be in that case? For something to be rare to me, I have to search a long time to find one. If a simple Google search produces numerous results and I can choose between which one I want to buy, I don't consider that product to be rare. Harder to find? Maybe. But rare? Not really. I've been searching for a few firearms for many years without any luck. Those will be worth what I'm willing to pay for them when I finally do (if ever) find them.
All the best,
Glenn
If at first you don't succeed... buy newer / better equipment!
[Updated on: Sat, 13 December 2014 16:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Odd caliber barrels question. [message #34690 is a reply to message #34685] |
Mon, 15 December 2014 14:04 |
jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming
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I saw two on probably the same auction site. I guess that's one place where people differ. You want to pick up cheap to turn it around or, as I say you're a flipper, looking to make a profit. I never try to make a profit, just hope to break even, If I lose a buck or two, so what. Many times I get stuck having to do a package deal just to get one or two items I want, the excess I pay, I just try to get back, and help out someone here, and give him a good deal where he's save a good chunk. I did just buy one specifically to "turn around" here, but at NO PROFIT, I knew the leader would flip it on that site for 100 more than he paid, I overbid him, making his profit margin too small (100.00 on a sub 300 barrel) so he quit, like I expected. It'll be listed here for exactly what I have in it. NIB 21" from 1984. I just didn't want the jerk to get it and make someone here (likely) have to pay 100 more to pad his pocket. There about 4 sellers from that site that do open bids and hope it escapes everyone else's radar or search engines, then triple (or more) their money. We're supposed to be FRIENDS here, not use this site as a tax hidden business venture. I've seen a few high volume sellers here "disappear", perhaps IRS caught up with them not including their profits on their tax returns, and now sitting in a federal prison.
Jim
[Updated on: Mon, 15 December 2014 17:58] by Moderator Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Odd caliber barrels question. [message #34691 is a reply to message #34690] |
Mon, 15 December 2014 14:19 |
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Crubear
Messages: 1798
Registered: March 2010
Location: NW Georgia
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The first thought that comes to mind is how many people "collect" barrels? I've known of two - James  and a guy named Joe Wright (TC Association way back in the 80's). There are rare barrels, but you have to know what you're looking at and what makes it rare. You do that by reading, a lot. There are collectible barrels as well (TC Association) and certain calibers. Way back when I started shooting the Contender I joined the TC Association. They didn't publish loads, and they didn't publish collector's information. Made them absolutely worthless to me. That was 30 years ago though, I don't know what the TCA is like now (or if it's still alive).
You can find the 5mm (a rimfire) occasionally, but the problem is the ammo is even scarcer. There are also rare barrels because no one is selling certain calibers that were run as factory loads. 38 Special is a good example. TC ran these for a while and then stopped because.... drum roll please... it didn't take Contender shooters long to learn you could load 38 cases to 357 Mag velocities and live through shooting them. Unfortunately, a few of these rounds made it into a revolver. I believe TC decided to protect themselves at some point and stopped making 9mm Luger, 38 Special, and 45 ACP barrels. (9mm is not rare, there are tons out there. Don't know about the other two for sure)
Barrels for the 221 aren't rare, just not as common. Those that have them tend to keep them.
Honestly, I have all the barrels I want or could ever need..... wait, look, there's another!!
[Updated on: Mon, 15 December 2014 14:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Odd caliber barrels question. [message #34699 is a reply to message #34691] |
Mon, 15 December 2014 18:23 |
jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming
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TCA started in 1986. There was an earlier collector's association that started in 80/81 by Joe Wright and my twin brother. Bro published the newsletter, passing on information as he got it from insiders at T/C, visits there, etc. He finally got disgusted because he was the only one giving info, the others were sucking from him, and not sharing anything back.
The 357 came out pretty quick after the first 5, which included the 38. Kind of a brain-fart, it wasn't so much that you could shoot +P 38 loads, but the 357 shot BOTH so why not just get the 357 mag and shoot 38's at any power level through them. It was more duplication that made them drop the 38, why put out two different barrels when the one will shoot both. 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, thought of as an automatic pistol round. Sure, they made revolvers in 45 Colt that used half=moon clips to hold the ACP's, and a lot of guys bought the guns, but never used the clips.
5mm was an odd bird, rimfire, and a little smaller than a 22 cal bore. the rifles didn't get very popular, so ammo wasn't really selling enough to continue. No ammo, why have a barrel that will shoot ammo that was near impossible to get, many were hording it for the rem. Rifles. 9MM was a european round and some guys brought back war souvenirs chambered for it, and they sold a little ammo for it, but what can you hunt with it? There wasn't any beretta service arm then, and on police forces, revolvers were the typical sidearm that was issued, first the 38 special, then the 357 mag. So the 9mm came and went, just wasn't enough market to keep selling them. The 45 Win mag was a flash in the pan, another one T/C released, but didn't last long. 41 mag had some fans but not enough to keep cranking out barrels year after year. The TCU line had it's day, then gradually faded away. You can't survive very long if you're only selling 100 or so barrels a year in a specific chambering. Single shots have a very small following, guns that can shoot 4/5 and up to 30 or 50 and more are far more popular. The old load on sunday and shoot all week philosophy gets way more attention.
CCA started with the idea to collect factory released stuff that they normal guy may have picked up at his local gun store. TCA came up with the idea to CREATE contrived collectibles. Not so much for them to use (not many are ever fired) but to sell later touting the fact that maybe 71 were originally made. Then use the Profit to feed their addiction. Most of it the factory never dreamed of putting out. For a long time it was contracts with the Custom Shop, Now I hear they get stuff made for them by MGM. Their purpose just got side-tracked. They still do exist, I'll never be a member; I'm not a flock joiner. I have 5 12" octagon TCA barrels, just lack the 22Hornet to having one each in the original 5 cals they started with (TC Contender). And the 7 TCU, my all-time favorite cartridge. I'd buy a dead cow if it's butt was chambered in 7TCU. The first five--sorry, I just have this "thing" about the first 5.
TCA goes out and has the Custom shop make barrel configurations just unique for them,and in limited numbers. They tout that it's one of 71 or 92 or so. I've got a bunch that were factory released that numbered less than their contrived rarities, and they don't even know the factory ones exist. They need to be TOLD what's collectible or not, nobody wants to find out for themselves, and share.
Crubear: It's well known you don't like the "angry cat" on the SS G-1's. You had Fox Ridge Catalogs. They offered flatside SS and Blues (if you didn't like the crouching cougar either) for a little more than the regular frame cost. Why didn't you ever get one? Fox ridge Catalog #20: Page 28, Flatside blue was 250.00. SS version was 265. Encore blue engraved was 309. Engraved blue with gold plate was 349. SS versions: 334.95, gold plate 374.95 I've got a NIB SS one on the way. While I was at it, I arranged for one of our members to get an NIB Blue frame. Someone has a used SS one on Gunbroker.
Jim
[Updated on: Sat, 22 August 2015 23:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Odd caliber barrels question. [message #34774 is a reply to message #34768] |
Wed, 17 December 2014 13:22 |
jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming
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It is if you're doing it as a business, and not a hobby. Hobby doesn't mean selling to make enough profit to fund your hobby either. Flipping becomes a crime when you make over 2oo in profit, don't keep records, and file a schedule "C". Buying on another site and turning it around to make $$ means you didn't even shoot the sucker to see if you even liked the new caliber. It's one thing to buy a 45-70 pistol barrel maybe shoot two shots and realizing it was a dumb idea as a hunter for you, or just because you gotta know how nasty it is, and trading it off or selling it for what you have in it isn't being a flipper. Neither is buying one for "trade fodder" as long as the "value" is quite similar.
I bought an NIB Carbine kit barrel (84/85) on GB to take it away from the an auction site seller that had the lead. Had he "won it" it would have been on the other auction site today with a BIN for 450. I paid under 300. I'll offer it here for 15.00 more than I paid. I may come out a few cents ahead, or 2.00 or so behind. I haven't figured out the exact price but it will be close to 300.
I see a lot of wants to buy for carbine barrels got Contenders. I didn't buy it for me. I already have one, one of the first made, Sept 1984. Plus a 23" SS bull, several 14's, and looking for a 16 SS. Used ones go 350-450. Would you rather that the other auction site seller make the 150+ if he had got it, and you had to get it from him, or get a NIB one for 150 less, and less than a "bargain" used one for 350? I got it so someone here could get it at near rock bottom cash outlay, not to fund my addiction.
This site (correct me if I'm wrong) is supposed to be for T/C addicts, whether collectors or users, and maybe a combo of both, not a place to make $$ to pay for your addiction/love. Profit motive for making a living or funding addictions, whether contenders, encores or cocaine doesn't belong here, that's buying and selling for a business.
I bought a Burris 3-9 with Mr. Murl in mind. I knew he "coveted" having one. It was a good deal, and he paid a little less than it cost me to get it, and ship to him the next day. He gained from my net searches and "bidding skills". What did I gain? His continuing friendship and THAT is worth more than all the $$$ in China.
I've got several friends that I've made selling on both the other auction site and GB. They'll close an auction and sell the item to me at the open bid. The open was already what they "needed" to make a living, they didn't care about the extra profit they may have gotten if it went through competitive bidding or the BIN.
Mr. Murl wanted/needed a 14" 7TCU. I had one with a set of dies shipped to Murl, and I PAID FOR IT. He only had to pay me back when he could afford it, I didn't care if it took a year. Going direct to him saved the extra to have it shipped to me, then to him, roughly 13.00. He'll eventually get around to paying for the scope, doesn't matter when, as long as it doesn't put him in a bind or cause a budget juggle he can't afford to get in. The important thing (to ME) was Murl didn't have to continue wreaking havoc on his arthritic hand and wrist to keep shooting his 15" encore 7-08 to kill a deer at 250. He can use his 7TCU a LOT more comfortably.
I did the majority of the work for mighty-mo's 11 contender frame listing. Spent at least 6 full hours and for what? 11 guys here got G-1 contender frames for 200.00 each and it included shipping. There'll be another listing for 7 or 8 more sometime soon. NO, no 10% or even a penny coming to me. He does (now) give me first pick before they get listed, but I have to pay the same as anyone else here. He may find more later, finds them buried in the walls and floor-boards and inherited them from an uncle. What he gets for them is tax-free, and doesn't know diddly about contenders, doesn't even shoot/hunt himself or very little. For him they are clutter, so he lets them go at cut-rate prices, he clears about 190.00, not counting his travel expenses from GA to VA and back. He may keep finding this stuff for another 5 years, barely made a dent already. He may not live long enough to find it all.
Someone else from MA has been sending me big boxes of extraneous contender and encore parts that I'll be listing here. 100% plus 10% will go got charities like for families of fallen warriors, DAV's, Toy's for tots, sponsor a guard member's (called up) family for Christmas or Thanksgiving Dinners, etc. NO expenses covered by the funds, time, gas, etc... will just be another personal donation on my part, and not even claimed on tax return.
For the most part prices here will be 90% of what Numrich lists for (factor in condition, etc.) second box had grips, forends, small parts for contenders and encores, a good bit unused and still in original packaging. Anything I keep I pay just what anyone else would, including the 10% extra donation. I guess I just save on shipping to get it. Some will go bargain basement because it was modified dumb. Wood forends for maybe 5-10.00 + shipping. If I don't find screws, they may sell screw-less.
[Updated on: Wed, 17 December 2014 16:56] by Moderator Report message to a moderator |
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