| pistol to rifle [message #5142] |
Tue, 31 May 2011 20:47  |
tmoss
Messages: 4
Registered: April 2011
Location: Louin, Ms.
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Forum Newbie |
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I have a 45\70 pistol complete. will it work to change to rifle
stocks an barrel,an what should i look for when changing.
thanks Thomas
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| Re: pistol to rifle [message #5175 is a reply to message #5142] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 06:52  |
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Crubear
Messages: 1798
Registered: March 2010
Location: NW Georgia
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Top Contributor
Forum Moderator |
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To comply with federal law
1) The barrel must be longer than 16 inches. Some states have laws that require a longer barrel.
2) The overall length of the complete firearm must be greater than 26 inches
Arguements start on the legality of switching from a pistol to a rifle and back again. The solid facts are that you cannot convert a frame registered with BATFE as a rifle to a pistol (how you're supposed to know is beyond me). Never put the rifle stock on your frame while you have a pistol barrel on it, or only have pistol barrels available.
Honestly, I have all the barrels I want or could ever need..... wait, look, there's another!!
[Updated on: Fri, 03 June 2011 06:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: pistol to rifle [message #5910 is a reply to message #5904] |
Wed, 07 September 2011 18:11 |
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cajuntec
Messages: 1251
Registered: November 2009
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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Forum Admin |
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Read Crubear's post - he got it right.
Here is a good read on the Contender, and it's legality as a carbine / pistol swap back and forth. Please note that it is NOT crystal clear. Although it was considered a "win" for the Contender owners that purchased the carbine kit in order to swap their pistol to a rifle (and back again), the BATFE can still cause you a world of hurt if and when your weapons were ever subject to inspection. Now I realize that situation might "never" happen, but think of it this way - a robber breaks in and you shoot them. There is a question (for some stupid reason) of the legality of you taking the robbers life. Next thing you know, your peaceful little law-abiding world is turned upside down and the BATFE now has a search warrant as part of this investigation. They find your converted pistol frame to rifle or vice versa. Again - you are technically "legal" under the provisions spelled out in the above, but do you really want to go to court and fight this stupid battle with the BATFE? I don't.
Simple answer - Look at Crubears response. His statement of "The solid facts are that you cannot convert a frame registered with BATFE as a rifle to a pistol." is the one the BATFE will use when they prosecute you.
If you want a much longer explanation, check this out:
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=239
Nuts and bolts of the situation:
T/C Arms says that it's legal to swap them back and forth, as long as rifle stocks are used with rifle barrels and pistol grips are used with pistol barrels.
BATFE says no. You can convert a pistol into a rifle, but once it's a rifle, it's a rifle for life. Any attempt to turn it back into a pistol is making a NFA firearm, and you can be charged.
How the BATFE would know that you had converted it to a pistol at one point in it's life and then back to a rifle is beyond me, and they probably don't know either.
I agree with the write-up on the BellM site - have a pistol frame for your pistols, and a rifle frame for your rifles. Then you can have all the barrels you want and the BATFE can't prosecute you unless you have one of your firearms configured as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or a pistol grip / rifle barrel configuration. No headache that way.
Regarding Doyle's statement above - that information is incorrect. I called T/C today to re-verify. They know that all of my frames are rifle frames. They identify them by serial number. Frames do not leave T/C arms as "frames" - they leave as either a pistol or rifle frame. They are required to by the BATFE.
All the best,
Glenn
If at first you don't succeed... buy newer / better equipment!
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| Re: pistol to rifle [message #5911 is a reply to message #5904] |
Wed, 07 September 2011 18:17 |
dblfan
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2011
Location: New Hampshire
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Forum Newbie |
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Doyle wrote on Wed, 07 September 2011 08:34Quote:Is there a source for serial number lookup other then T/C ?
Even then, it gets muddy. T/C sells bare frames that are neither pistol nor rifle.
wow,that does indeed get dicey !I was reading this last night and if you look at the letter the ATF sent they claim the purchaser would have to find out from the factory how it was built or they could be in violation of the provisions of NFA. Scary !
I sent an email to T/C yesterday(trying to find out if my pistol is a "pistol") so far no response.If I don't hear anything I will call tomorrow.
here is the link to the letter;
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=239
[Updated on: Wed, 07 September 2011 18:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: pistol to rifle [message #5913 is a reply to message #5912] |
Wed, 07 September 2011 20:34 |
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cajuntec
Messages: 1251
Registered: November 2009
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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Top Contributor
Forum Admin |
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The dealer can not change it on the form if it is a rifle and the customer wants it recorded as a pistol. If it is shipped from the factory as a rifle, and they record it as a pistol, they can be arrested for creating a NFA weapon.
I'm not sure if they can change it on the form if it is a pistol and the customer wants it recorded as a rifle, but I would venture to say the FFL probably doesn't want to deal with that. If T/C shipped it as a rifle, it may be in their best interest to record it as a rifle and let the customer do with it as they will. It relieves them of the liability that may come with switching it on the form from what the manufacturer originally classified it as. A smart FFL won't risk it.
FFL's who want to ensure they keep their licences won't start messing around with such a thing. If T/C shipped it as a pistol, the FFL needs to record it as a pistol. Think about it - If I were an FFL and someone asked me to do it, I'd tell them no. After they leave my shop, the liability is on them.
All the best,
Glenn
If at first you don't succeed... buy newer / better equipment!
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| Re: pistol to rifle [message #5918 is a reply to message #5914] |
Thu, 08 September 2011 07:51 |
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the speed limit here in ohio is 65mph... I NEVER go above it. EVER 
If the ATF is going to come after me for deer hunting with a 12" 44mag barrel on my original "rifle" frame... so be it.
They are looking for much bigger fish to fry.
[Updated on: Thu, 08 September 2011 07:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: pistol to rifle [message #5920 is a reply to message #5918] |
Thu, 08 September 2011 09:47 |
dblfan
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2011
Location: New Hampshire
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Forum Newbie |
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"They are looking for much bigger fish to fry.'
With this Fast and Furious mess it sure looks like they are the fish that's going to get fried !
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