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No lockup [message #38409]

Sat, 16 May 2015 15:55

wapiti
Messages: 4
Registered: April 2014
Location: colo

Forum Newbie

Bought a used Encore. The locking lugs show that the lockup is all the way back against the barrel.I have 2 other barrels that show the same thing. I assume this means for all practical purposes no lockup.None of these barrels will put 2 simultaneous shots on paper. Is there a reasonable solution? Do I have to send it back to TC to get fixed and since I bought it used will they take it?Any help is appreciated.
JIM

JIM

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Re: No lockup [message #38412 is a reply to message #38409]

Sat, 16 May 2015 18:37

jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming

Top Contributor

locking lugs? I'm guessing you mean the locking bolts that are located in the hinge lug of your barrel. They should be two halves with a common roller for them, that are retained by a roll pin through the hinge lug. I also assume that you mean when you say the lockup is all the way back against the barrel, you're really saying they are completely back in the groove in the hinge lug that they are supposed to slide in and out of? If I'm on track, it sounds like you have three barrels which are missing the coil springs that go behind those locking BOLTS to push them out and under the "table" of the frame to keep the barrel from opening up. The seller may have removed them for some reason, perhaps intending to replace them with heavier duty ones from Bellm and sold the outfit before he got around to it. Drive the roll pin out, and see it the coil springs are in the slot once the locking bolts are out. If not, rather than put up with S&W's BS and song and dance, simply order as many as you need from Bellm. They aren't especially expensive.

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Re: No lockup [message #38413 is a reply to message #38412]

Sat, 16 May 2015 19:25

cajuntec
Messages: 1250
Registered: November 2009
Location: Williamsburg, VA

Top Contributor
Forum Admin

I didn't quite understand this one either.

The bolts have to be engaging in order to cock the firearm. If the locking bolts aren't coming out after you close the action, locking it in place, then they aren't engaging the interlock. The firearm wouldn't cock, and therefore, you never could have fired it, so I'm still scratching my head as to what you are trying to describe.

How do the locking bolts "show" that the lockup is all the way back under the barrel (retracted)? If you're seeing marks on them, that's normal, because they retract as you are closing the barrel in the frame, and then spring back out into it, engaging the interlock and allowing the firearm to fire. If they weren't engaging at all, you would have a few things happen:

1) The aforementioned "firearm wouldn't cock, and therefore wouldn't fire"
2) You wouldn't need to pull on the cocking spur to unlock the barrel for loading / unloading.

IF your firearm is not locking up (you don't have to pull the cocking spur to open the action), AND you still can pull back the hammer and fire, then please STOP IMMEDIATELY, BECAUSE YOUR FIREARM IS BROKEN AND UNSAFE. It should never be allowed to function in that condition.

The ONLY thing I can thing of, and I sincerely hope this isn't the case, because I'd be surprised if you shot the firearm and didn't get hurt - is if you are slipping the barrels with forend attached in place without the hinge pin installed. If that is the case, please stop shooting your firearm immediately and get a hinge pin and a manual. I doubt if this is the case, as you would have to be extremely lucky to fire it like that and not get severely hurt.

If you could post pics of what you are talking about, that would be best. Hopefully, we can figure out what is going on here, because I've never heard of anyone having the issues you are trying to describe. It really just doesn't make sense.

All the best,
Glenn

If at first you don't succeed... buy newer / better equipment!

[Updated on: Sun, 17 May 2015 00:29]

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Re: No lockup [message #38425 is a reply to message #38413]

Mon, 18 May 2015 09:19

Crubear
Messages: 1798
Registered: March 2010
Location: NW Georgia

Top Contributor
Forum Moderator

To answer your other question, yes, S&W will take a look at it.

Also, take some pics from the side and top of the barrel. Show us what you're seeing.

Honestly, I have all the barrels I want or could ever need..... wait, look, there's another!!

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Re: No lockup [message #38429 is a reply to message #38425]

Tue, 19 May 2015 01:00

wapiti
Messages: 4
Registered: April 2014
Location: colo

Forum Newbie

Yes I was referring to the locking bolts. When I put Ink on them as viewed from the top down the ink is erased all the way back to the lug that is part of the barrel when the action is closed. This doesn't seem right.
. All the springs are in place and one one I just got from Bellms; I spoke to mike or Kurt Bellm and they used the phrase no lockup or incorrect lockup or words to that effect. I bought a barrel from Bellms' last year with same problems. He told me to do the ink test described with the same result. He had me send the barrel back and he replaced it with another and the results are the same. Hope this clarifies things.
THanks JIM.

JIM

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Re: No lockup [message #38431 is a reply to message #38429]

Tue, 19 May 2015 06:39

rchatting
Messages: 499
Registered: August 2011
Location: Middle Georgia

Forum Regular

That sounds to me like the bolts are extending all the way out into the frame. Sounds to me like they are doing just the opposite, they are locking up too much. I think typically, they stop short of extending all the way out when the frame is closed as the marker should have shown. Maybe the previous owner did some grinding on the frame which increased clearance allowing the bolts to go further than they are supposed to.

Pictures would definitely help.

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Re: No lockup [message #38433 is a reply to message #38431]

Tue, 19 May 2015 09:46

jamesgammel
Messages: 1708
Registered: August 2012
Location: Lovell, Wyoming

Top Contributor

Expect some wear on the flat top closest to the hinge lug, even though it may not spring back all the way out when it hits the interlock safety and stops. When the action is closed those bolts get shoved in flush (with 0 headspace) and that surface rides in the slot in the hinge lug. The wear pattern you need to concern yourself with is that tapered part some 3/4's worth of the locking bolt. Only a total idiot would ever grind/file any part of the actual frame to try and get more locking bolt engagement. It is legit to fine-tune the top surface of the sloped part of the locking bolt(s)(judiciously)thatlast little bit of slope may need "bumped back" a LITTLE at a time. Barrels can be replaced, locking bolts even cheaper. Frames, however is critical for safety and the casting should never be altered. If a problem, have S&W work it out.
If the tops of the locking bolts have been butchered too much, the barrel will flop up and down erraticly. That changes POI with every shot. They need to be "tight" but just loose enough to slide in the groove in the hinge lug. Another reason they need to be kept clean.

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Re: No lockup [message #38437 is a reply to message #38433]

Tue, 19 May 2015 13:16

Crubear
Messages: 1798
Registered: March 2010
Location: NW Georgia

Top Contributor
Forum Moderator

Contact TC/S&W

Honestly, I have all the barrels I want or could ever need..... wait, look, there's another!!

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